I'm Erik Cargill.
Rachel Elnar:And I'm Rachel Elnar. And this is Cheers and Tiers.
Erik Cargill:Design Leadership Tales Retold.
Rachel Elnar:Erik, we have a great guest today. Amazing. I'm so excited.
Erik Cargill:Who is it?
Rachel Elnar:I don't know. Who is it?
Rachel Elnar:Well, Amanda Hovest She's a Pittsburgh based graphic designer who turns big ideas into unforgettable experiences. With eighteen plus years of expertise in branding, marketing, and environmental design, she's earned national recognition, including GDUSA's two thousand nineteen person to watch. Amanda blends sharp strategy with bold creativity, delivering standout work for clients like the LA Phil, Plotma, Martin Luther King Jr. Community Hospital, and more.
Rachel Elnar:Her knack for leading multidisciplinary teams has shaped impactful brands for cultural institutions, nonprofits, and universities. As President Emeritus of AIGA Los Angeles, Amanda helped revive LA's design scene and foster creative connections. A passionate mentor and facilitator, she's all about unlocking strategies and inspiring the next wave of talent. For Amanda, design isn't just work. It's a way to make the world brighter.
Rachel Elnar:Welcome, Amanda.
Erik Cargill:Nice. Welcome.
Rachel Elnar:Thanks for that.
Erik Cargill:Clap trap.
Rachel Elnar:I love you. I miss you. I'm so happy that you're here. For everyone who's listening, where were you in AIGA? What was your leadership role?
Rachel Elnar:How long did you serve?
Rachel Elnar:That's a great question. I did look it up and I started in 2014, which makes me feel really old. I didn't realize that that many years have passed between start point and today. I started with just a team of six, you being one of them, Rachel, as the membership director of AIGA Los Angeles. I mean, before that, I was a student member at Bowling Green State University.
Rachel Elnar:But I really didn't take hold and really jump in full force until I became membership director, then transitioned into what was your role, secretaryvice president. And then I lucked out and got to be president. At least I think it was lucky now. Then it felt like a lot. And I did that all the way until 2019, right before the pandemic.
Rachel Elnar:It's like five years. Yeah.
Erik Cargill:How did you get pulled into a leadership role? Were you just a member and you went to events or
Rachel Elnar:went to a few events.
Erik Cargill:You went to a few events.
Rachel Elnar:Went to a few events. I was really like I mean, one of my very first things I did in LA was go to a AIGA event, and I had an after party at the Edison. Do you remember the Edison, Rachel? Yes, yes. It was like my first month and my friend Keith Knievin brought me with him, and I got to meet some designers.
Rachel Elnar:And I have to say like the six people I met that night were kind of my core family in LA for my entire stay there, which is just kind of insane to think about. So I started going just a few, and then my mentor and boss, Kim Bear, from KBDA, was like, Hey, you seem like you wanna do things, you know, and she saw something in me and she's like, You should apply to be on the board. And I got lucky. Put in for membership director and I got the role. And then Rachel, you know, the spitfire she is, was kind of like, Here you go, this is what you do.
Rachel Elnar:And we were put on an airplane to the Denver, I think it was Denver, AEGA Retreat. We met everyone for the first time in the LA Airport. And we all remember that. I was roomed with a random person at that time. Now she's a dear friend, Shannon Gabor.
Rachel Elnar:And we kind of learned by doing right away. And Rachel wasn't gonna take any crap. She was like, no, no, you signed up for this. This is what we're doing. I say that, but she also was totally great because she introduced me to everybody at the retreat, and I knew no one, and I was like this little pumpkin.
Rachel Elnar:I knew nothing.
Erik Cargill:Rachel's Rachel's great at keeping us honest. That's for sure.
Rachel Elnar:And from membership director, you became a leader in Los Angeles, which was amazing. You did some amazing things. I mean, I love how visible you are, how you were always an advocate for designers in Los Angeles. So thank you for that.
Rachel Elnar:Well, you. Thanks for fostering it. I would say it was probably one of the hardest things I've done in learning about leadership in a leadership role, especially when you're directing, you know, 20 to 50 people on what to do and you're not paying any of them. So they can really like do what they want and you can't, get mad about it. You know?
Rachel Elnar:What's really interesting from that is some of the best projects and jobs and people I work with today all stem from AIGA connections. Isn't that crazy? I get to work with my friends, like all the time.
Erik Cargill:I love that. I love that.
Rachel Elnar:I think the network makes a huge difference. And I would say the same for me. I would have I wouldn't have known Erik if not for AIGA, of course.
Rachel Elnar:Do you guys know when we met? Amanda,
Erik Cargill:like, walked up. I don't remember where he is. It was a bar in Denver somewhere. And you were actually, I think you were actually mingling with some people from LA, but also from Pittsburgh, if I'm not mistaken.
Rachel Elnar:In Philly.
Erik Cargill:At the time. And we didn't know each other, and you walked right up to me, and you were very friendly. It's like, hey, I'm Amanda. I'm from LA. Where are you from?
Erik Cargill:And, I mean, well, we've been friends ever since.
Rachel Elnar:So what was your first leadership retreat?
Rachel Elnar:Denver was my very first.
Rachel Elnar:Okay.
Rachel Elnar:And now that was My only preparation for this was to look up the retreats I had been to. Cause I really was kind of sad that I couldn't remember everywhere. I remember the pieces and the people, but I couldn't remember where we were, like at all. So Denver, and then we went to Grand Rapids, which was super fun. Does everybody remember
Rachel Elnar:that? So fun.
Erik Cargill:I do remember that. I'm surprised.
Rachel Elnar:They did that one up. It was very like, is it Wes?
Erik Cargill:Wes Anderson's. Yeah, they had a Wes Anderson theme.
Rachel Elnar:All the vibe. It was really great. And then I went to Raleigh in 2016. Oh, look at us. Oh.
Rachel Elnar:So where was
Rachel Elnar:this? I think it's Grand Rapids or Maybe
Erik Cargill:it's Grand Rapids.
Rachel Elnar:I mean, I'd have to look at my thing to see what scarf I have on to then clarify on the picture. I think it Grand Rapids. I think it was the second one because I look way too chill. The first one, was kinda Or we had a different It
Rachel Elnar:was so much fun. I think this is the first time we met Erik, honestly. Well, that was Denver.
Erik Cargill:Denver Denver was my first, and then, yeah, Grand Rapids.
Rachel Elnar:Well, it's one of the two because I'm a really I
Erik Cargill:suppose it doesn't really matter because that was a common setting.
Rachel Elnar:It was a common setting. Mean, basically people were drinking or in pyramids. So question to you, Amanda. Do you have a memory of either being in a pyramid or drinking like the one we just saw?
Rachel Elnar:Specifically, I remember walking into the second one I ever went to, so that was in Grand Rapids, and we walked into the bar, and everybody already knew people. And it was the first time I like walked up and people were Amanda, you haven't seen these people in a year? And then, you know, everything ensued so much so that I actually remember, Erik, you ended up meeting us by fluke in a like it was definitely a diner at, like, three in the morning. We had all been drinking, and then we wanted food. Rachel, you were there.
Rachel Elnar:We were all there. I remember messing me. And I just remember, like, we all went for pancakes or something. And we were having pancakes, and Erik walks in and sits down with us. And I think
Erik Cargill:I'm glad you
Rachel Elnar:were with Walker also. You might have been with David Walker because I remember him being there too. Yeah. I just remember being like, this is what this is. You can be somewhere in the middle of the night and people are gonna, you're gonna run into people.
Erik Cargill:Oh yeah, it was amazing, the camaraderie. Even people that I would see, I knew their face, maybe knew their first name, maybe didn't know their name, but you know knew that they were part of this and then would see them out and it just, it was instant camaraderie. It was you know, let's sit down and talk. Yeah, I loved it. I loved it.
Erik Cargill:I miss it. I miss it for that. Was a pretty special time.
Rachel Elnar:Remember the first time I let someone go instead of me. And it was a really hard decision to like, be like, I guess I'm not gonna go.
Rachel Elnar:Oh, that's hard.
Rachel Elnar:It was hard. It was so fun. And now, those kinds of connections led me to not feel so isolated coming to Pittsburgh.
Rachel Elnar:Right.
Rachel Elnar:You know, some of my very first friends were the AIGA people I had met in many different ways, even just Zooms in their community. I just reached out and I'm like, I'm moving there, would you have drinks with me? This was right, COVID was just starting to be okay. I don't want you call it, it's not over, whatever you wanna call it. It was where people were starting to go back out again.
Rachel Elnar:And Lindsay here in Pittsburgh, she's the past president, she was like, sure. And she met me at a bar, we had a drink and some food, and she just basically made me a friend right away. And I can feel lucky. Like, who else gets to just go, what city do I wanna move to? Okay.
Rachel Elnar:What set of people can I reach out to?
Erik Cargill:Yeah. What brought you out to Pittsburgh?
Rachel Elnar:A few things. So I was looking to move closer to home. So my home base where my parents are, I'm from a very, very small farm town in Ohio. It's in Northwest Ohio. My mom's ailing, and so I just wanted to be closer for, you know, as things progress.
Rachel Elnar:And, you know, the pandemic made it easy to forget how much you built in a location because you're in your home all the time. I had already started to think about moving closer. I went to Ohio at the beginning of twenty twenty to kind of ride out COVID with my family on our farm, because when as an adult, do you get to live with your parents and like, you know, really get to enjoy that? Really was a joy. My parents were actually pretty awesome.
Rachel Elnar:And I'm an adult daughter that got to live upstairs by herself for six months, which was pretty great. And so I did that, and when I was there, I like, You know, I think this is the time to move out of LA. So I started doing a little research. And the easiest part for me was really, I wanted to have someone that I knew somewhere that I really knew. And I was between Chicago, Detroit, Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati were all on the table, and Pittsburgh.
Rachel Elnar:And my friend Keith, one of the ones who brought me into AIGA and kind of fostered, I still work with him to this day, He and his partner live here part time because his partner's family's from here. And he's like, why don't you come and like, you know, be here while you quarantine for your couple weeks? Because he had to fly back anyway. And I was like, Pittsburgh's pretty cool. I I this is what I say.
Rachel Elnar:I say it's a tiny Los Angeles. I mean, tiny, tiny, but comparatively. But it's a whole bunch of little neighborhoods that are all quirky and have their own cool things that make up one big city, which is how I describe Los Angeles. And so it's kind of what sealed the deal is that I didn't have to be alone, and it was a driving distance from my family. Plus the cultural institutions here, which is really like the number one thing for work for me was important.
Rachel Elnar:Right? I have to have nonprofit cultural base for me to even think about moving there.
Erik Cargill:Spectacular.
Rachel Elnar:That's amazing. Every time I leave a leadership retreat, I feel like, oh, I just met 200, three hundred people. Feels small enough because you get to know everybody. And now you have a network of couches to sleep on or a network of people to have coffee with wherever you go.
Erik Cargill:That's right. That's right. Or, you know, a number of birthday messages to send on Facebook.
Rachel Elnar:That's quite a bit.
Erik Cargill:Oh, it's your birthday. What can your birthday.
Rachel Elnar:Do you guys get to I know you're doing this, but do you guys get to see people?
Erik Cargill:No. I I do still stay in touch with, you know, some people. Rachel reached out to me. She happened to be in Seattle and said, hey. Let's get together.
Erik Cargill:And then she mentioned this podcast. And it sounded like fun, but I thought she was joking. I just thought, Oh yeah, it sounds great. It sounds great, but why would she choose me? And then I've been reaching out to people and actually seeing people in the wild and reintroducing myself to some of them.
Erik Cargill:I'm looking for a job right now, so I'm leveraging that network.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah, I think it's hard to get out and meet people, honestly, after the pandemic's been really tough. So almost every text or email or connection that you make with people is like even more meaningful. Mhmm. People have been reaching out because of the Los Angeles fires, and it's like, wow, I haven't heard from you in a long time. It's great to hear from you.
Rachel Elnar:Obviously, they're concerned, but like, it's people remember, which is great.
Rachel Elnar:Feels like a lost era or one that we got to experience anyway.
Erik Cargill:I I feel very fortunate to be a part of that. Definitely.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah, same, same. I mean, remember just looking around, everybody who has a name tag is my friend. Even if I don't know them, you just go up to them and be like, hey, do you know a place to eat or da da da? And they wouldn't even hesitate. Everybody was so welcoming for sure.
Rachel Elnar:Rachel, you kinda taught me that. I mean, I came in pretty timid. Know, I didn't even know you until the day before. And we walked into, you know, the first welcome bar and I was just watching you. And you're like, oh, hi, I'm Rachel or whatever.
Rachel Elnar:And like, so you just start introducing me to people that you just met too. Like, this is Amanda. And I was like, okay. This is how we do it. So that's what Erik is probably why it was corrupting you because Rachel showed me that that's just what you do.
Rachel Elnar:Aw. Aw. It might as well just get out there and meet as many people as possible. Definitely, those leadership retreats made me feel so comfortable to do that.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I actually felt like I did learn a lot there too, so that was good.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. What did you learn? Tell me.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. What what did you learn?
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. What did you learn there?
Rachel Elnar:I felt like I learned I mean, I think I feel like I learned how to run a chapter a little bit. Yeah. Mostly from the people around me that were doing it. You know? We've all been in a big role, it's hard.
Erik Cargill:It is. You mentioned that you didn't feel so alone. My experience of getting in with the board was fairly similar. It was like I became partnership director and then retreat and I didn't know anybody. Barely knew my chapter and I was absolutely terrified of raising money.
Erik Cargill:Like cold calling people, I made it my mission to use it as a learning experience. I failed a lot, but I was okay with it because I was just, I knew that other people were in the same position and the connection. You almost have to be there and I imagine the years before us when they had their retreats, they had their stories and you know, their slice of time.
Rachel Elnar:So that means we have a lot of work to do on this podcast, Erik. Have a lot of people. We have
Erik Cargill:a of work to do. We have a lot of work to do and a lot of learning.
Rachel Elnar:Rachel, when was your first retreat? Do you remember?
Rachel Elnar:Oh my gosh. My first retreat, yes, I won't ever forget it. I
Erik Cargill:don't think I know this story.
Rachel Elnar:02/2008. Omaha. Omaha.
Erik Cargill:Omaha. From
Rachel Elnar:what I heard, it was one of the smaller ones, meaning it wasn't in a larger city. The year prior was in Miami. So people didn't have that feeling of family. When you got to Omaha, there's just nothing to do there. So everyone stayed in the embassy suites.
Rachel Elnar:So everyone had room parties. And we didn't have phones. So we would use, Sharpies, grab a Sharpie, and basically to remember where Philly was or Jacksonville, you would write the, room number on everyone's arm. So to know where the party was, you would just look around, and you would see these numbers on people's arms, and you knew exactly
Erik Cargill:Oh, wow.
Rachel Elnar:What room to go to.
Erik Cargill:Incredible.
Rachel Elnar:It was I love that.
Rachel Elnar:It was crazy fun. And then one night, we went to, we found a bar, and the whole leadership retreat. There was only maybe 180 of us. It was small back then. Wow.
Rachel Elnar:We went and we danced on the bar. We danced on the tables. I mean, we took over the whole bar. This was a Friday night. Saturday night, they closed because they didn't have any more alcohol.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. We heard people were going back like, oh, did
Rachel Elnar:you go back to the bars? Like, no, they're they're closed.
Rachel Elnar:So we heard they ran out.
Erik Cargill:Drank them out of alcohol.
Rachel Elnar:I feel like that's a pretty big feat for a small town. Like, that's all there is to do is have a drink.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. It was crazy.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. You have to
Rachel Elnar:be careful where you tell people to meet.
Rachel Elnar:Watch out. Oh, I'm just gonna bring my friends. Only, like, two fifty of them. They're on their way.
Erik Cargill:250 of my friends and
Rachel Elnar:Closest friends. Yeah. Exactly. Don't worry. It'll be fine.
Rachel Elnar:And they they tip well.
Rachel Elnar:So I'm gonna ask you about, again, leadership retreat and just leadership in general, Amanda. How did your leadership experience influence your career? Like, what did you learn from AIGA and maybe the leadership retreats or just were, you know, leading a chapter, and how did it influence what you're doing now?
Rachel Elnar:That's interesting. I think way more than I ever thought. I was lucky enough to surround myself with really brilliant people. Not only when starting, but like as our chapter grew, we grew that great advisory board. That was another 25 people of, you know, people from April Greiman to anybody.
Rachel Elnar:Like, all of them kinda brought something to the table. I mean, one thing I feel like I learned is listening first. I mean, learned that from Kim a lot. She's definitely a person who listens first, especially to the client, right? But learning that from a leadership capability standpoint, know, servant leadership, I also just emulated the people who I thought did a great job, which was, I mean, the people that were ahead of me.
Rachel Elnar:And they all did it by doing too. It was never like, I'm the leader, I'm the president, hear me more. It was like, I'm gonna get down here and do this with you because we're a team and we're all doing this. How it's affected my career today is I feel like the type of work I do, like I've always been lucky enough to work in non profits and cultural institutions. But I'm starting to go into roles where my role is to be an event producer, my role is to be a community manager.
Rachel Elnar:And so not only am I designing, but I'm doing the other things that were the core pieces that brought me up to be the president. Right? The membership Oh, wow. The event directing. Because I think I was an event director for six months because somebody dropped out.
Rachel Elnar:I mean, there are all the things that you are before before you get to to do presidency. And so, I mean, one of the big things today is that I'm doing work and I learned that I liked more than design or design in different ways, design about the people. It's great.
Erik Cargill:I love it. I love it. You took it with you. That's that's great.
Rachel Elnar:This is sort of a a story that happens across the board. Your your story is unique and amazing, Amanda, but honestly, I think we've all learned to bring our learnings from chapter leadership into what we do now.
Rachel Elnar:Where else do you get to learn on the job as a nonprofit leader? Like you're running a nonprofit organization and somebody didn't I didn't really pick that up until my last year. Somebody was like, you know that you're running a non profit? And I was like, that's interesting. Oh yeah, that's definitely what I'm doing, you know, because I worked with non profits and I saw a lot of things, I'm like, wow, they're doing so much.
Rachel Elnar:And somebody was like, you're doing that. And I was like, oh, yeah. It was like like you would have thought of something that would have came very quickly. But now I tell people, oh, I used to run a nonprofit because it's true. Oh, I
Rachel Elnar:thought it was just volunteering. I'm running a nonprofit? Uh-oh.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah, I think it's a little scary, but I didn't really realize it till the end. Did you guys ever feel that power and the weight of it?
Erik Cargill:Honestly, I hadn't thought about it until you just mentioned it. Now I think back on it, I think, wow, I really need to highlight this more on my resume.
Rachel Elnar:It's true. It's true.
Erik Cargill:The collaboration aspect was huge.
Rachel Elnar:Oh gosh, Just
Erik Cargill:huge. I mean, anybody that wanted to help, we got a place for you. We can help. You can help us for sure.
Rachel Elnar:Learning to maneuver around everyone's strengths and everyone's ways they communicate. I think that prepped me for any communication that you have with coworkers or with anyone. You know, because like, I'm like, okay, you actually need me to communicate with you this way, because I'm gonna get what I need from you that way. You know? Or like, I know that your strength is here.
Rachel Elnar:And it's not an easy thing, I feel like, to figure out right away or whatever, but when you have 25 people that you're asking to do something, you gotta start seeing what they're gravitating towards, because you don't have a lot of time to make those moves, make things happen.
Rachel Elnar:Feels like a crash course in leadership, honestly. Feel like, you know, when you're when you're working in a job, the things that are boundaries are how much people are getting paid, what everyone's titles are, how long they've been in the organization, not understanding how the communication channels or the structure was. But when you come into a board, everyone is fresh. Everyone's on the same. No one gets paid.
Rachel Elnar:Everybody is doing this for a greater love. And because of that, I feel like the collaboration in the community is much stronger.
Rachel Elnar:20% of the people take 80% of your time, which is something I definitely learned in leadership. But also that somebody's somebody's 80 or somebody's 50% is someone else's a %, and somebody else's 50%, or like 25%, however that works. Like, you think you're giving a hundred and it's somebody else's 200 and somebody else's 50. And that was really hard because I had to tell people, you know, had some people that were super gung ho and had the time to put in that others might not have the time to do. And I always had to remind them, like, you're doing amazing for you.
Rachel Elnar:Thank you for doing what you're doing. I understand it's frustrating because you're working with people who have a full time job or that are doing this other project or that can't get back to you in forty eight hours. And it was a frustrating place because there is no rules, you're not paying anybody. So you always just had to, like, keep reminding, myself included, that, like, they're doing their 100% when it comes to this. And even if it's not mine, it's what they can give.
Rachel Elnar:And I think that took a lot of patience, but good lesson.
Rachel Elnar:Well, you did a great job, Amanda. Obviously, very memorable, made a huge difference in the LA community, and also just in leadership across AIG. From what I remember, you're definitely a standout.
Rachel Elnar:Oh, it's lovely. I'm so happy you guys are making this happen. Rachel, you're the core of you are the glue, and you've always kept the community going in all the different ways and all the career pivots you've had. So thank you for that. And you too, Erik.
Rachel Elnar:I love
Rachel Elnar:seeing you.
Erik Cargill:It's great to see you. So great to see you.
Rachel Elnar:So great to see you. Yeah. How do I like can I subscribe? How can I help?
Erik Cargill:We need a membership director. Do you have any experience?
Rachel Elnar:One last thing, Amanda. I just wanted to say cheers to you. Again, thank you for being such a great Cheers. Cheers.
Rachel Elnar:Have a great weekend. Thank
Erik Cargill:you. You too. So great to see you.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. It was fun.
Erik Cargill:Oh my god.
Rachel Elnar:That was so much fun.
Rachel Elnar:It was great. Was
Erik Cargill:so great to see her.
Rachel Elnar:I can't wait to connect with so many more people and see what everyone's up to. So it should be fun. Definitely. Cheers and Tiers We'll be back to hear more design leadership tales retold.
Erik Cargill:Please subscribe, rate, review, and share this podcast with their creative community, design leaders, and friends.
Rachel Elnar:Cheers and Tiers Design Leadership Tales Retold is a production of Chapter Two Media and hosted by us, Rachel Elnar and Erik Cargill. This episode was produced and edited by Rachel Elnor.
Erik Cargill:Music is by Silverships Plastic Oceans. Check them out at silvershipsplasticoceans.bandcamp.com.
Rachel Elnar:Follow Cheers and Tiers on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe to our email list at cheersandtiers dot com so you don't miss an episode.