Chapter two.
Erik Cargill:I'm Erik Cargill.
Rachel Elnar:And I'm Rachel Elnar. And this is Cheers and Tiers.
Erik Cargill:Design leadership tales retold.
Rachel Elnar:Alright, Erik. These are good friends I met a long time ago through our AIGA leadership. They are the team behind Hirsik and Webster Creative Partners in Martinsburg, West Virginia, blending systems and storytelling to create real lasting impact. Please welcome Laurel Webster and James Jamie Hirsik. Hello.
Erik Cargill:Hey, team. Welcome, you guys.
Rachel Elnar:Thanks for having us. Welcome.
Laurel Webster:It has been a beat.
James Hersick:How is West Virginia?
Laurel Webster:Surprisingly pleasant this weekend. Had so much humidity, so much rain. It puts Seattle, I think, in the dust with rain.
Erik Cargill:Right.
Laurel Webster:It's been a lot.
Erik Cargill:Yeah.
Laurel Webster:That's been gorgeous, and it's been really lovely this weekend.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. Feels like summer. Fantastic.
Laurel Webster:Yeah. Like good summer.
Erik Cargill:Good. Alright.
Rachel Elnar:James and Laurel would love to know, how did you meet? Because to me, this is when everyone talks about you, I think even Josh Silverman brought this up. Oh, well, James and Laurel, they met at a leadership retreat. I'm like, okay. This is a story we need to have on the podcast.
Erik Cargill:Oh, boy. Data.
Laurel Webster:Data.
Erik Cargill:It wasn't a leadership retreat. Yeah. But it was an AIGA conference. It was? Yeah.
Laurel Webster:Was pivot. Pivot in Phoenix. Well, I was still in California at the time. I'm from Southern California originally. And I brought a student group from Cal State Fullerton.
Laurel Webster:I was there because we were doing it was
Erik Cargill:like right kinda like a year into launching design for good stuff. And we were doing like a pop up museum. So like a couple of the projects that I worked on with some of the folks were kind of part of that. So we were just all there doing sessions and stuff during the conference.
Laurel Webster:Yeah. So my details are a little different than his details. We were in it was a designed for good, like breakout, I think it was. You were there listening. I was there listening.
Laurel Webster:I think Justin Aaron's was one of the panelists on the panel there. And I remember. Did I say something like that was a
Erik Cargill:good question? You
Laurel Webster:asked a good question. I don't remember what the question was.
Erik Cargill:It's a great question. It was something to like how the heck do we pay for all this crap? Right? Like how are we gonna get paid for this work or something like that. I'm paraphrasing but it was essentially that.
Erik Cargill:Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:Sounds like a great session.
Laurel Webster:Yeah. It was a good session. Thanks, Justin. So were
Rachel Elnar:you aware of each other? Did you know that
Laurel Webster:No.
Erik Cargill:You were
Rachel Elnar:okay. You were not aware of each other?
Erik Cargill:The best part, yeah, is that, like, later that night I think it was that night or maybe, like, two days later, I was Couple days with Don Zanonis, and we were like
Laurel Webster:I was like who is that girl?
Erik Cargill:I know we know who she is like I know I know her and she's like And
Laurel Webster:this was my first conference. No you
Erik Cargill:don't and I'm like yes we do I know who that person is and there you go. I don't know we've been talking ever since.
Rachel Elnar:It was your first conference so Laurel were you in leadership at all or not yet?
Laurel Webster:Not yet so at that point as someone that was on a seven year degree track, because prior to graphic design, I was a double major with piano performance as well. And design was the one that stuck. I like to sleep a little too much to try and keep both of those going for all four years. But I was one of the founding members of Cal State Fullerton's AIGA student chapter under the Orange County chapter, and I was the vice president. And so one of my good friends is still good friends, Ashley Snowy Lara, her and I were, let's get some students together and let's make this happen.
Laurel Webster:So we we felt kinda like the mother hens of the group being the the older, if you will, senior students. And we had two or three other it was all girls crew, which was super fun. And at that point from Orange County, you know, getting to Phoenix is an easy drive with a couple in and outs along the way. And we made our way out there.
Erik Cargill:We just hung out. We just hung out. And then wouldn't dance
Laurel Webster:with me, though.
Erik Cargill:No. I would not dance with you.
Laurel Webster:At the
Erik Cargill:act of party? Talking to, I like was talking I don't even know who I was with. Was I with I was with Mark Dudley, I think. And I don't remember. We were talking topography, so I didn't wanna dance.
Rachel Elnar:Bummer. Hey, I would have been the same way. Same thing on my side. Any leadership retreats after that or any other AIGA conferences after that together?
Laurel Webster:Yes. San Francisco together. We did San Francisco together. And that was still at the point where we were dating long distance. So airplanes make for really expensive dates, y'all.
Erik Cargill:We did that for like a year.
Laurel Webster:Yeah. Yeah. So I would come back here to West Virginia for either like a long weekend or a week and then similarly you would come to Southern California. You did that a couple times too.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. Like we basically I guess like that year because we kind of like talked off and on and then like I had to do like this I was going to the leader I had to go to the Phoenix Design Summit and then I had to go to Salt Lake City for that leadership retreat so in between we had been talking for like I don't know how many months it was, but like Not almost like nine months at that point. Yeah. We weren't even sure if we were gonna try to do this Yeah. Dating thing or not.
Erik Cargill:And then in between, I went to California to spend her birthday with her.
Laurel Webster:That's right.
Erik Cargill:And that was 2012?
Laurel Webster:Don't know. Time is so weird anymore. Yeah.
Erik Cargill:So then we were like, cool. Let's do this. So then we dated for like, I don't know. We did airplane rides back and forth for months.
Laurel Webster:Yeah. We did about every six so weeks we were flying. Wow. I was really good at red eyes at that point too. Yeah.
James Hersick:And racked up some miles, I I imagine.
Laurel Webster:Yeah. Those were the days.
Rachel Elnar:So tell us also about your your AIGA leadership. Like, when you what chapter? What was your role? I'll let you go first because
Erik Cargill:Yeah. I was with Blue Ridge, which no longer I don't think they it existed.
Laurel Webster:It doesn't. It got taken over not taken over, but it merged with Baltimore chapter.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. So I I was like I got roped into being treasurer by like a four like a former employee back in like twenty o 2006 or '7 and then vice president and president of that chapter. So I was on the board for, don't know, six, eight, ten years, something. I don't remember. Don't think it was that long.
Erik Cargill:But and in that process, like, did some kinda created some some different kind of programming, and the goddess got me roped into coming to leadership retreats and presenting on that stuff. But I think my first leadership retreat was Omaha, where I met you.
Rachel Elnar:Yes. Omaha.
Erik Cargill:Omaha. Was such a great fun. Yeah. Because nothing was open. So it was amazing.
Rachel Elnar:It was crazy. Alright. So Laurel.
Laurel Webster:While I was finishing out with Cal State Fullerton, I saw through the student chapter and was active as a member of the Orange County chapter, but didn't get involved with leadership till moving here. And I think it was, I guess, probably six or seven months after moving here, there was a meeting with the Blue Ridge Chapter because they are there was talks of them dissolving because the membership had gotten so low. I was at that meeting, and I think you came to that meeting with me too. I think there were under 20 members, and they were talking about dissolving. And as someone that had just moved cross country, was living with my boyfriend at the time, and was looking for extra connection, I was like, I'll be president.
Laurel Webster:So, I mean, a couple weeks later, I was sitting down with the the prior president and got a notebook of here's everything that we have and see you. And Yeah. Went from there. So I think that was like in the spring, that would have been I think was it it was the Colorado leadership retreat. Was that
James Hersick:Denver?
Laurel Webster:Denver. Denver. That that was my first one. It was great because somehow, I think met Jenny and Brandon Shanley at Pivot in Arizona, and then they were there at the leadership and was like, oh, I have friends here. This is awesome.
Laurel Webster:Look. I know people. So, yeah, that was my first one. And, I was the only person from Blue Ridge at that point. There wasn't anyone else, but it was great because the following year was that Michigan?
Laurel Webster:Grand Rapids. Rapids. That's the one. You guys are on it. So, I was able to bring a board member, my vice president at that point, Kathy Bruce, with me.
Laurel Webster:And we did a couple more after that too, and it was great. So
Erik Cargill:Yeah. Blue Ridge was small but mighty. Like, it's so it's so crazy because we were, like, the the National Student Design Competition Flux came out of that chapter. Yeah. Like, Clockwork came out of that chapter.
Erik Cargill:Like, it was pretty crazy what we were able to accomplish. Yeah. But like, I guess geographically because we're like a little nude and we were surrounded by DC and Baltimore. I mean, I guess it I don't know.
Laurel Webster:It was hard but also good because like the benefit was like if DC or Baltimore were doing something, it was like, hey, let's, you know, get a group of people to go out there. Within, like, the first six months of me being president, what was it? When we had Kit Hinrichs Hinrichs come out. What was the big Clockwork. Probably.
Laurel Webster:It wasn't clockwork. No. We just had him come in and speak. What was the big was it the two hundredth anniversary? Of the flag.
Laurel Webster:Of the flag. Yeah. You know how Kit is with flags and antiques in general. So we had partnered with AIGA Blue Ridge, or sorry, not Blue Ridge, with Baltimore. And so we did an event for Kit there, and then we did an event at Blue Ridge.
Laurel Webster:And what was great is it wasn't just our membership, which had grown a little bit at that point, I mean we're talking probably under 50 people, but he drew in community members from the Ad Federation that was very popular at the time in our area, as well as just community in general, and it was phenomenal, the outpouring of support that we got. And it gave us a good little boost to keep our chapter going. And then, Flex is another great example too. You started that?
Erik Cargill:Well, I was Kristen Kristen started it. Okay. And I think I was like
Laurel Webster:That's right. Because I was at Yeah. But then
Erik Cargill:we like really blew it up. It was started like a local thing, then it went like crazy national. So
Laurel Webster:and international. It went international as well. One of the years that we had, I think we had over 3,000 entries because it's an online student design competition. What? We restructured the pricing and some of the categories to update it to be more modernized, if you will.
Laurel Webster:Right? Including some more digital aspects to restructured it, we had over 3,000 entries. It was mind blowing. It's crazy. Don't think our judges knew what they were getting into.
Laurel Webster:I don't think we did. It was nuts. But then then, you know, it's still ongoing. The Baltimore chapter, similar how with Blue Ridge dissolving and into the the Baltimore chapter, they took over Flux and it's still going strong.
Erik Cargill:Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. I was gonna ask you about that because I have seen Flux still going.
Erik Cargill:I was like Yeah. Wow.
Rachel Elnar:That's awesome.
Erik Cargill:It started the little college over here, Shepherd University, as a like local student design competition, then it became like national, and then it became international.
Laurel Webster:Was crazy. Yeah. And it's funny, because I know you under your leadership, we had student chapters or councils within our chapter. But while we didn't have that experience under my leadership, we had very active student events such as FLEX, but then we also had a really popular in person student portfolio review too, where we would get students from around the region that would drive two or three hours to come in and do it. Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. Yeah. It's something. That's amazing. That's amazing.
Laurel Webster:I'm proud of that.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. Yeah. Really nice work.
James Hersick:So Laurel, I met you at Denver. That was also my first. And Oh, that's
Erik Cargill:also
James Hersick:at Grand Rapids. James, you and I have never met. What are some stories that one of you or either of you or both of you could share together about some memorable moments during retreats that stand out in your mind?
Laurel Webster:We never did any of the leadership retreats together.
James Hersick:Right.
Laurel Webster:Like, he was always when he was with I mean, he was always part of my council, or part of my chapter, but he wasn't actively on the board. But he was like the active supporter regardless because obviously.
Erik Cargill:I had no choice.
Laurel Webster:You had no choice. But why don't you go first because we can kinda go in in order, I guess, if you will.
Erik Cargill:Sure. I mean I mean it's for me it was like a lot I made some great friends through through it but as far as like hilarity like or like really very right off like right off the bat, icebreaker in Omaha. I'm, like, in this little group and Debbie Millman's in the group and I have no clue who anybody is. Right? Like, it's, like, my first design conference, the thing that that I'm the president of and, like, it's something about, like, tell us your favorite word and your least favorite word and I'm like I know what my favorite word is and I'm getting ready to drop an f bomb and Debbie's like my least favorite word is the f bomb and I was like this is gonna go well.
Erik Cargill:It's amazing. But Yeah. It was But yeah. I don't know. Like, it just did not do that.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. It's really funny. Like and like, I think the and also, like, Omaha because everything closed at, 11:00 or whatever it was. Like the big atrium in that Holiday Inn or whatever the hell it was where you're just like
Rachel Elnar:It's Embassy Suites. It's Embassy Suites.
Erik Cargill:So down there. Okay. And there was like a jungle, a rain forest in the and it was terrible.
Laurel Webster:So Denver for me was a little bit of a blur because I still had like a little bit of the initial shock of, oh my god, I'm doing this. Oh my god, I'm really doing this. And just the absorbing of all the new connections. Kind of similar to like when you're at one of the conferences, you're just absorbing all the inspiration. The next year, which was Grand Rapids, there's a little more calm, I think, internal calm, if you will.
Laurel Webster:But, oh my gosh, we in hotel, and it's not that I didn't know about the pyramids happening before. I heard stories of them. I didn't see them, though, in Denver, and I hadn't seen them one of the conferences, not for lack of going to the after parties, we were there. But Grand Rapids went hard on the human pyramids. I don't remember who all was in it.
Laurel Webster:I just remember these grand staircases. There were people on the top of the stairwell cheering down into the atrium, whatever the main area is. And I mean, it had to have been they had grand ideas, but it was six or seven people wide at the base. I don't think it actually got that tall, but I just remember the security guy just looking, just going
Erik Cargill:What is wrong?
Laurel Webster:They actually doing this? Is this actually happening? And then he was like, oh, I should probably do something about this. Came over and fixed things up there. And I think that was my first, almost, introduction to the 6AM club.
Laurel Webster:Oh. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I I almost lasted.
Laurel Webster:I think it was like 04:30, 05:00, I was like, I'm good. There's already people leaving for the airport. I need sleep.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. But
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. And everyone loved being there so much. I don't know. That had that had a different vibe. I mean, Omaha was great, was infamous for sure.
Rachel Elnar:But Grand Rapids was like the coming together of everyone. Even though Denver had the alumni had the AIGA alumni leaders. Like, was a lot of people there.
Laurel Webster:Oh, yeah. I forgot about that.
Rachel Elnar:So you saw a lot of leadership there. But Grand Rapids was almost like, oh, we're all together again. For some reason, it felt like everyone was doing everything and it everyone just let loose. So I can understand, you know, being initiated to the six AM club because everybody loved that lobby. There were so many people there
Erik Cargill:all the
Laurel Webster:so good. And I remember too the was it like the president's lunch or something? Think it was like the I forget if it was the first or the second day of the retreat too. But David Asari was there, kind of if you will, I I kind of almost envisioned him as like, kind of like the wise one or sage, kind of overseeing everybody. Photographing.
Laurel Webster:Yes. But he helped get all of the presidents together. I think at that one, and I think he did it I think he did it at Raleigh too. I may not be remembering correctly, but we got a really great picture of all the presidents together Oh. During that luncheon.
Laurel Webster:It's somewhere probably
Rachel Elnar:I think that's on Facebook, but
Laurel Webster:It exists somewhere because it it'll do a throwback sometimes. Right. It's just it's a staggering number of people representing, you know, all the chapters across The States at that point. I think we also had our one Middle East chapter too in presence there too. Right.
Laurel Webster:Right. Was that Mo Saad? Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah.
Laurel Webster:Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:That's amazing. That was that was just the golden era. Right? Like thinking about how many people were were in leadership at the time who cared about their chapters. Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:And just how many of us were there were. Yeah. Crazy. Putting Putting in the
Laurel Webster:work with lots of grace, lots of humor, and, you know, good memories for it too.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. Alright. So do you remember any room parties?
Erik Cargill:Remember is strange word. Yes.
Rachel Elnar:I do.
Erik Cargill:I have like like there's just hints. Yeah. I mean, I think Minneapolis? What time? Now it's okay.
Erik Cargill:See, I wasn't even remember Minneapolis, but I definitely went to Minneapolis. Oh. And I can remember I don't know if it was Minneapolis or not. I can remember doing some some cool stuff there. But I remember there was when we ended up in, like, Debbie Millman's room at some point, everybody did.
Erik Cargill:Like Oh, wow. Everybody. I don't recall how or why and that was just a I don't know there's just always well Omar was the thing where you had to go from room to room to room to room it all kind of comes together but like yeah I think that was the key is like I don't even it's just you know the like I don't recall sleeping at all ever but it wasn't because we were like going crazy or going hard. You're just like with your people and having conversations and they just didn't stop.
Rachel Elnar:Omaha was nonstop, honestly. We would be doing the sessions during the day, and then there would be some sort of like Adobe party. I remember you, Jamie, you and I were hanging out at the Adobe party. And I was like, okay. 9PM.
Rachel Elnar:Now what's up?
Erik Cargill:Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was fun too because I actually remember, like, because I was all by myself, like LA, and you guys have, like, a 100,000,000 people. You guys were like, we're just gonna adopt you. Blue Ridge is now part of LA.
Erik Cargill:It was like, it's like, great. I'll just put that's fine. I'll just hang out with you guys all weekend long. And it was awesome. Yeah.
Laurel Webster:It's a good chapter to hang out with.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. But Yeah. Yeah. It was such a cool I mean that was like for me that was my first leadership retreat. It was also sort of a sort of shift in perspective on what I thought it was possible to do not only like with our chapter, but also professionally.
Erik Cargill:And then also like a different change of vibe from AIGA. Because when I was in college, was a little clicky and I always felt like the outsider. And then I was like, oh wait, these are all these are my people. This is cool. So Yeah.
Laurel Webster:Yeah. I think that's I mean, that last point is one of the things that I just love truly in all the ways about AIGA is like, one, we wouldn't be sitting in the same room having this conversation with you guys if, you know, AIGA and meeting at a conference that none of this would have happened, period. But just being able to make friends truly all over the world through AIGA and people that we're still in touch with today is really special. But room parties. I'm trying to think.
Laurel Webster:I don't and again, I think Denver, I don't think I was I didn't feel in enough yet at that point for it. But at Grand Rapids, I think Brendan Shanley, like am I remembering right? Like, would bring, like, different types of beer, and it would be kind of like a beer tasting situation in his room. What? Yeah.
Laurel Webster:So there were a few of us there, and we did that. And I I think that was the one that also had the rooftop pool, and we met for kind of like a a pre happy hour, before the actual after party, there and did that. So that was that was a room, if you will, at that point. But then, in Raleigh then, because Gage and I, along with, Lenny and, Leticia who was on staff at HQ for a while. I don't think Leticia was able to make it there, but Lenny and I engaged were there and we all decided to bring local beer from our different areas because I drove down with a couple of my board members and they each had theirs.
Laurel Webster:So I don't remember whose room we met up in, but we did kind of a beer swap at one point. And then the six AM club showed up in full force in that lobby. It was like a it was a beer exchange too. It was like literally, people have, like, the little coolers and the little six packs, and it was just different beers getting traded all around. And someone did have, like, a little air horn too, which didn't last long.
Rachel Elnar:My gosh. That hotel had
Laurel Webster:to put up with a lot. On top of the fact that it was really, really, really hot. I don't think it was as hot as Atlanta from what I heard because I was not at at the Atlanta retreat but it was hot.
Rachel Elnar:But you made it through with all your friends around. Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Webster:It was good times. Lots of laughs. Probably some cry laughing too. Things get goofy at that hour.
James Hersick:Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:I miss that so much. Yeah. Hey, Erik. So the landscape's not working well or at least not for me.
Laurel Webster:No. It's a little bit like this.
Erik Cargill:It's very avant garde though.
Rachel Elnar:I like it. Yeah. I like it, but Yeah. Portrait play.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. Portrait play. Yeah.
James Hersick:So I've been I'm at the office. I work at the Space Needle. Yeah. And I've got a wired Internet connection, and I I do IT for the Space Needle currently, and I've been locked out of the system. Oh, no.
James Hersick:Because our security is so delicate. So Yeah. I locked myself out of the system.
Laurel Webster:Oh, no. Okay.
James Hersick:Just because of it it I won't explain why.
Erik Cargill:It's fine. Technology in the Pacific West. You know?
James Hersick:You know? Here we are. Now I'm on my phone. Thank you for your patience.
Laurel Webster:No. You're good. Oh, shit. Again, you you just you missed all the good stories. You asked a great question, then you were like, poof.
Laurel Webster:And I was like,
Erik Cargill:you're gonna love this episode. I can't wait. I can't wait.
Laurel Webster:This is gonna be like a great bloopers reel too.
James Hersick:Oh, yeah. The best episode I've never been a part of. Oh.
Rachel Elnar:Well, you're here now, Erik.
James Hersick:Yeah. I'm here now.
Rachel Elnar:I'm here That's all that matters. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. I wanted to ask you both about what you're doing now, especially, in your firm, and if there are any lessons that you inherited from your leadership time and through AIGA that contribute to your leadership now?
Rachel Elnar:The answer is yes. You know, I think the lessons of just leading a chapter are huge into client work, into, you know, lot
Laurel Webster:of what we do is involving facilitation with communities, municipalities, and, you know, humans in general. But I think about, like, the retreat and some of the sessions on, you know, like leadership styles and some of our special speakers that we had in talking about, you know, best practices and the like, and just hearing from other chapter experiences too. I think it definitely impacts me. Like, I may not think about it, you know, actively, but, you know, the lessons are learned there, they're practiced on a regular basis, that's for sure.
Erik Cargill:Yeah, it was huge. I remember like, I think it was, again, it was Omaha with Sean Adams talking. Right? Like Sean. I remember driving home from the airport being like so bummed that I was coming home, but like I'm very really excited because like, I was like, this is a before and after moment.
Erik Cargill:Right? So then, like, literally, I can trace, like, everything that's happened and the stuff I'll be working on in the morning 100% back to that time because being in that room gave me the confidence to keep to grow and be in in other rooms right and so like and have the all these people that you thought were super cool or like out there were just you know I've learned like they're just people so like you can go do cool shit too. And so like coming out of that creating clockwork and then that getting me invited then be part of Design for Good going to Alabama Design Summit like all of that stuff like that continues today so we're working on like some of the work we're working on right now it's like if you told me I was gonna be doing this ten years ago I'd have been like that's crazy. Yeah but we're doing like we're working with a you know we've kind of pivoted a graphic design still something we do but we're you know really a lot of the facilitation a lot of strategy and almost all of our branding work is around sort of understanding place and helping people like talk about their place.
Erik Cargill:That's most of the work we do right now is really just working with communities to help them tell their story and figure out like what their assets are and how they can pull them together to help their community get better or attract people into it.
Laurel Webster:The design thinking is still you know in the it's the foundation of all those conversations and the facilitations that we're doing too.
Erik Cargill:Yeah but you come full circle like my best friend and you know my best friend I met through that my wife I met through that and you know we're working right now in the city in Birmingham I mean most I've put so much work in Alabama right now which is crazy but we're working on a we're part of a team that's doing our urban a trail to connect redlined communities in Birmingham to the Civil Rights Monument which is going for UNESCO World Heritage Site and we're doing like the wayfinding and the interpretive and supporting the community engagement and the branding and all that like all these things that like so something I would never even been on my radar like ten years ago right but that's you can tie all that back to being in a in a room right so that's the lesson be in the room.
Laurel Webster:Oh my gosh that's so true and and all the more to like not only like the work that we're doing but, like, to the like, this happening. Right? Like, we're in a room together around what was being introduced that year at Pivot Conference, which was the whole Design for Good. Not movement, but the what do you wanna call it? Initiative.
Laurel Webster:I guess, initiative. Yeah. AIGA was taking on. And there was the living principles piece of that too. But, you know, for me coming to, you know, my first conference at that point and looking for how design could do good in the world and, like, really seeing, oh my gosh, this is possible and this can happen.
Laurel Webster:It's huge for me to be able to not only know, like, when we because of that, and we've intentionally designed and curated the work that we do surrounding that as our foundation of not only, like, who we are, but what we do. But then I also think of, like, where designed for good went and maybe pivot is kind of the funny word here. Right? Considering that's where we started. But pivoted to where like it became like the path to impact focus.
Laurel Webster:Think of like Emerge and that task force that led to some of these ideas and other committees and outreaches, if you will, of AIGA. And, you know, when you rolled off of AIGA, only from, like, the national leadership side of Design for Good, and I kind of showed up into that with Blue Ridge and then got involved into the leadership with Design for Good slash Path to Impact. It was almost a passing of the baton, but then also like seeing it merge a bit more too. But I think part of the reason why I was so excited about it was not only because it was new people and new leadership for me, but it was also a way of, in a sense, almost giving back to not only what he helped curate for us at a national level with AIGA, but making sure, like, it was hitting home in Blue Ridge as well as, you know, these are things that we could use in our everyday practices. And, you know, I may not pick up, like, our Path to Impact book that we created, but certainly, you know, the conversations, you know, our group had around that.
Laurel Webster:Justin Aaron's ironically full circle, right, being part of that. Leticia, Oh, goodness. Her last name's blanking on me entirely, who was on staff. Wolf. Wolf, thank Thank you.
Erik Cargill:Me, of all did
Laurel Webster:You did that. That was so good. Gold star. But then Lenny Morris, Lenny Gray Morris and myself, and, you know, the collaboration to to bring that together and see how it could truly be functional for not only designers, but for for communities, for people, for businesses. And just knowing, like, you know, those things already existed, but we, you know, we brought them together in one format, right?
Laurel Webster:One tool. And again, just something that we still use, and I'm very proud of that on all the fronts.
Rachel Elnar:It's a great way to bring impact to your community and also to your industry. So that's Yeah.
Laurel Webster:And we were exploring what that looked like, the community piece too. Like, especially having moved here, you know, moving cross country, getting involved in the community here, I think was more I I don't know if I ever vocalized it, but it became something that was important to me. And then you playing, like, almost tour guide, if you will, like, helping, like, me explore the area that I was in and new to. We both kind of just unanimously were like, oh, we're doing this within the community. And, you know, as much as we're doing this work, as Jamie mentioned, in Alabama, we've done a lot of work not only in our own back yard literally.
Laurel Webster:We're starting a farmer's market here as much as we do work in the state So very proud of that.
Rachel Elnar:Wow. That's amazing.
James Hersick:Wow. I mean
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. It's a blur.
James Hersick:A blur, but I mean, I love the story that how this grew and how you've adapted over time and have used the skills and the leadership that you have absorbed over the years and have elevated all of this stuff and you're making it happen and it's a spectacular story.
Laurel Webster:I like to think so.
Erik Cargill:Yeah yeah you know like on Monday when I go to work and I'm like ah right but it's fine and then when you like look back and you're like oh wow we like we we have been really bad over the last we've been so crazy busy the last couple months and we haven't had time to, like, even, like, share anything we've been working on for the last year and a half. It's, like, when you look back at the list of things we've done, we're, oh, that's pretty good. Yeah. It's pretty crazy.
Laurel Webster:Yeah.
Erik Cargill:So it is wild, but but to think, like, you know, like, That question I had in the room, like, how the heck are you gonna pay the bills if you're trying to do this work? Like, what's gonna happen? And like, that's kinda what we do now. Like Yeah. There's always some component of it, you know?
Laurel Webster:There was a year, I think at at leadership, I don't remember who it was that was our keynote speaker, but someone was talking about core values or your guiding principles, right? But it was also a year that was really, again, pivotal for Jamie and I where we were, you know, we had work from just a variety of different industries, a variety of different work. A lot of it being graphic design first led, but it was also a challenging year for us because we weren't finding a great deal of fulfillment, I think, for either of us. And we also had some I had some family stuff, going on, and I just remember there was a plane ride it wasn't a book that AIGA recommended, but there was a plane ride where you had just finished, doing your guiding principles and I was diving into the book, afterwards. Guiding principles, again, are core values, right?
Laurel Webster:And, going through the process of really defining what those were for each of us. And we do this often, even to this day, where he'll read a book, and then I'll read the book, and then we share cliff notes. Sometimes I'll just get the cliff notes. So I can't, I love it. But, you know, we did our core values, and it was an opportunity for us not only personally, you know, as partners in life, but then also as partners in business to go, you know, what are our core values personally, but then how does that translate to our business and the type of people that we wanna work with, and the type of businesses that we wanna support, or communities that we wanna support.
Laurel Webster:And I think of our AIGA leadership experiences, and, you know, those conversations, you know, those, seeds perhaps were planted there, but then they grew and grew and grew, and then I think transformed us to be able to have those types of conversations that truly took us in the direction that we're headed now, with great intention.
Rachel Elnar:Oh, so great. Hey, I wanted to ask you, your Blue Ridge membership was so small. Yeah. What were the ties between you? I I bet you were really, really close.
Rachel Elnar:How did you benefit each other?
Laurel Webster:The Blue Ridge chapter, like, benefiting
Rachel Elnar:Well, the members benefit each other because it wasn't like you would just come into, like, of thousands of people. Right? I mean, it was really tight. Yeah. The whole chapter.
Rachel Elnar:Everyone knew each other really well.
Erik Cargill:Yes. Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:Yes. I'm sure you I'm I'm everyone sure benefited from that intimacy and from that trust.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. I think I mean, I'm trying to remember, but I honestly believe the biggest the chapter ever was was maybe maybe getting somewhere between a 115, 200 members when we had big student chapters. Yeah. It's like maybe that's as big as it ever got. Right?
Erik Cargill:And that was like grinding to get there. But so to your point like the usual suspects like the room was pretty much the same 20 to 30 people all the time. Yeah. You really got to, you know, you really got to like, you know, get to know what people are doing and what they wanted to do and and what they were working on and really felt like we were in this, you know, we're just here hanging out together. You'd kinda created your own little personal community.
Laurel Webster:That's true and you know, when I took over took over, such a strong way of putting it. But, know, our membership grew. I think we got close to 80 or 90 under my leadership. And, you know, we would always have, like, guests that would come in that weren't members per se, but, you know, they were interested. But, you know, oftentimes when my board was sitting together and there was, I think, six to eight of us at that point, recognizing, you know, we're gonna be a third of the room showing up at an event, we really just we designed what we knew we wanted to see, and we it wasn't for a lack of serving and asking people in our area what they wanted to see too, but oftentimes, like, you know, if we wanted to see, like, a bookbinding workshop, you know, we had someone from DC came in and and did that, and then, you know, we we had a hands on bookbinding event.
Laurel Webster:You know, if students wanted to see something, we would make that happen for them. And it's certainly, I think we had again, we had a lot more interest if there was, you know, one college or one university university that had interest, and we could make an event happen around it. It wouldn't necessarily happen at that university or a college campus, but we would make it happen in a centralized area, and we're able to collect people, you know, from the surrounding chapters or from the surrounding communities. But, know, our chapter, you know, we had a social component, certainly. I mean, obviously that's part of what AIGA is, period.
Laurel Webster:But there was an educational slant that was there us. We had some professional practices type stuff, we never really set off with that. It wasn't something that was not well received, but we didn't have good turnout for So, you know, we stuck with what we
Rachel Elnar:had good turnout with, and that's okay. It worked for us at that time. Yeah. The students love coming out. They are being hungry.
Rachel Elnar:Right? Like Yeah. In every chapter. We really love the students because they come out in full force.
Erik Cargill:And it's so cool to see like some of them now. Right?
Laurel Webster:Like Oh my goodness.
Erik Cargill:And where they're at. Like it's really cool because there's been so much time since I was involved like with it. Like to actually see some of these some of these people that are out and about being just super amazing now.
Laurel Webster:I think of like the few years of, like, your leadership with the with the chapter and my few years with the chapter and leadership position and, like, you know, college students, even the few high school students, you know, what they were seeing and experiencing from a transformation of technology of, you know, what is design, what you can do with design, and the uncertainty, but also the curiosity surrounding that. And I think AIGA was also able to take some of that, not only at the local level, but at the the grander, more national scale of that too. So I think that was part of the draw too is, and certainly for me as a student, it was too. Oh, yeah. You know, it's a decade, fifteen, heck even twenty years of just immense transformation.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. I forgot. I mean, we I was completely blanked on it. We had that event called mock up, which we had this Yeah. The different student teams adopted a nonprofit, and then did work for this nonprofit, and had a a design professional designer mentoring the team.
Erik Cargill:Like Yeah. I forgot about that, and the news came out and covered it, like Yeah.
Laurel Webster:That was a good one.
Erik Cargill:I completely forgot about that's so cool. Like, this little our little chapter, like, always try to do bad ass shit. Like, it was so crazy.
Laurel Webster:There was one year it was Ram Castillo from Australia who had the book about mentoring. I'm blanking on his book's name right now. But he connected with AIGA at HQ and said, hey, I'm doing a book tour in The US. Whatever chapters wanna have me, I will be there. Picked him up from the airport.
Laurel Webster:We had set up a couple different events and put a call out saying, hey, we had this Australian designer and author coming in, and we had our own council suited event. But then and I know I think bal it was Baltimore or DC also had him. Maybe both of them did. But there was a school that in Lingonore? Mhmm.
Laurel Webster:In near Frederick, Maryland.
Erik Cargill:The high school.
Laurel Webster:But there was a high school that was interested in having him come out. And so we made that happen. And he spent the night and came back out and picked him back up the next morning and took him over there, introduced him. We had a a whole high school auditorium filled for him. Wow.
Laurel Webster:Talk about the power of design, you know, what to look for with a design mentor, how to get started. And the teacher that we connected with there, she sent me a text or an email the next day, and it was the front page of their local newspaper. It was like, grand center of this happening. Was like, oh, wow. Something's right here.
Laurel Webster:Something's working. This is good. This is a good direction.
Rachel Elnar:That's amazing. What I love is that, because you have a small chapter, you have so many voices, they're not just members and volunteers, or members in leadership. You have members who are also volunteers who have a say, who have agency in terms of what the direction of the chapter. So yeah, I think you have a more active chapter when you have a smaller chapter. Yeah, cheers to you.
Rachel Elnar:And it sounds like there was a lot of, output and there was a lot of great outcomes from it.
Laurel Webster:Absolutely. That's a great way of putting it. There was definitely a lot of work put into it, but, we celebrated every bit of it during the outcomes. That's for sure.
Rachel Elnar:Amazing. Well, I wanted to say congratulations, and I'm sorry that Erik fell off.
Erik Cargill:I know. We lost him. He's gonna I can't wait for his recap. It's gonna be great.
Laurel Webster:Gonna have to find him like a really good like avatar or something just to, like, have him when he's not on screen. Just, like Go. Have him in there. Have a little deep plate
Erik Cargill:with Cut out.
Laurel Webster:Exactly. Yeah. I'm sure,
Erik Cargill:like, some AI can, like, put him back in. It'll be fine.
Laurel Webster:That'd be really fun like do an AI version of him in between. Got it.
Rachel Elnar:I am scared honestly.
Erik Cargill:I'm not sure yet. I know I have days. I have days. Friday I was really mad at it. Today I think I got it doing what I needed to do again.
Laurel Webster:Oh, love it.
Rachel Elnar:Well, thank you again. I just wanted to say cheers and thank you again. It was such a great time and I can't believe it's been so long. Crazy.
Erik Cargill:I haven't caught up. Crazy.
Laurel Webster:Yeah. At least we were able
Rachel Elnar:to do it on the podcast. Hey, happy early birthday. Oh yeah. Thank you so much.
Laurel Webster:Happy early birthday. All right.
Rachel Elnar:It was great to have you both. Cheers again as well.
Erik Cargill:See you.
Laurel Webster:All right. Take care. Take care. Bye.
Rachel Elnar:Cheers and Tiers will be back next time with more Design Leadership Tales Retold.
Erik Cargill:Please subscribe, rate, review, and share this podcast with your creative community, design leaders, and friends.
Rachel Elnar:Cheers and Tears Design Leadership Tales Told is a production of chapter two and hosted by us, Rachel Elner and Erik Cargill. This episode was produced and edited by Rachel Elner. Podcast graphics by Erik Cargill. Animation by Verso Design and Megatoe Design.
Erik Cargill:The theme music track is Loose Ends by Silver Ship's Plastic Oceans. Follow Cheers and Tiers on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube podcasts, or wherever you get your audio and video podcasts. Subscribe to our email list at cheersandtiers dot com so you don't miss an episode.