Chapter two.
Erik Cargill:I'm Erik Cargill.
Rachel Elnar:And I'm Rachel Elnar. And this is Cheers and Tiers.
Erik Cargill:Design leadership tales retold.
Rachel Elnar:Hey, Erik. We have two guests to welcome to the podcast. Our first guest is a designer activist focused on LGBTQ issues, women's rights, health, and environmental protection. As an active participant in the design community, she has served leadership roles at AIGA in the Philadelphia chapter, including the education chair, vice president and president. Her teaching practice parallels her research interest by fostering the idea that our work as designers has an impact on the human experience.
Rachel Elnar:Her design work has been featured in many publications and exhibitions and in collections at Northwestern University and the Poster House in New York City. Welcome professor, BFA program head, and graduate director of the design and illustration department at the Tyler School of Art and Architecture. Woo, Kelly Hallhatt. Kelly. Her Leadership Retreat Partner in Crime is here with us too.
Rachel Elnar:This guest is a graphic design advocate who has served in AIGA Philadelphia since 1999, holding roles including president, chair of the Philadelphia Design Awards, and working on national diversity initiatives, earning her the Philadelphia AIGA Fellow Award in 2019. As a partner at Cooper Graphic Design founded with her husband Gavin, she's created distinctive work for clients like Mural Arts Philadelphia, the African American Museum, and Wawa. She's also known for her activism through We the Women Design, Fight for Human Rights, and Sisters in Solidarity, where she organizes postcard writing campaigns for social change. Please say hello to partner at Cooper Graphic Design, Michelle Cooper. Hello.
Rachel Elnar:Hello. Welcome both of you.
Erik Cargill:Welcome both of you. Yeah.
Kelly Holohan:Thanks so much for the invite.
Rachel Elnar:My gosh. I'm so happy you're here. Did you you guys are coordinating. Did you do that on purpose?
Kelly Holohan:Well, we've been friends
Michele Cooper:It's a long like our cycle or something. Maybe.
Kelly Holohan:Twinning? That's not happening anymore.
Michele Cooper:That's amazing. It's probably not the first time. You're right. It's true.
Rachel Elnar:So today, we're going to talk a little bit about this dynamic duo and your roles within AIGA Philadelphia as well as your experiences in the leadership retreats. So would like to know a little bit, maybe a little bit about how you got into leadership specifically. We can start with Kelly and then go to Michelle.
Kelly Holohan:Okay. Great. Well, I came from, I was in Manhattan, and I was working, for a design firm called Bernhard Fidema Design. And, at that time, the job opened up at Tyler, and I was teaching part time at SVA. I always knew I wanted to be an educator.
Kelly Holohan:So, when a job opened at Tyler, of course, you know, I got my MFA at Tyler, and so it was always dear to my heart. And all those folks, my mentors became my very good friends, and so when the job opened up, I applied. And so the first year I was here from 2000 to 02/2001, I was back and forth from New York because I was a dean's appointment at the time, and then my position went tenure, and I reapplied for it the next year and and got it. So then when I moved here, so that was 02/2001, I wanted to get involved with AIGA and I reached out and it was, I I Michelle all around the same time too. And I reached out and so I went to one committee meeting.
Kelly Holohan:This is a good story. So I went to one committee meeting and Bill Deering was the chair of the education committee. And I after that meeting, he said, you know, you'd be a great chair
Michele Cooper:for this committee.
Kelly Holohan:And I'm like, I I didn't know very much. I went, okay. You know? And that's sort of how it happened. And so I was education chair for a number of years until I think I took a break in 2005 because we did the AIGA National Conference, was in Philadelphia, and so that year I did all the design.
Kelly Holohan:I ran the design committee for that conference, and then I transitioned right after that to be Michelle's vice president, at AIGA. So, and then I so that was 02/2006, so to then I was president from 2007 to '9. So it was, like, a full decade of full activism on running committees and sharing things. So yeah.
Michele Cooper:Oh, yeah. I think that yeah. We we started out I started out in 1999 in Philadelphia chapter. I don't even know, something similar to Kelly's story about getting invited to a meeting and then all of a sudden I'm like chair of something. I forget.
Michele Cooper:So I was on the committee, the education committee. I was actually on there for a while. And then all of a sudden it was like, okay, now we need a chair for PR. When when I think like that existed. I feel like PR chairs aren't really like they don't exist anymore on the board.
Michele Cooper:So I was a PR chair and then became VP, which that happened quickly too. I think I wasn't even PR chair for a year. And then Brad Keer was president at the time and just said, you're gonna be vice president.
Kelly Holohan:Was like we don't have the options.
Michele Cooper:So I guess that's So I remember a lot of things changed really fast. The organization wasn't super There weren't a lot of members at the time. And so I remember a lot of us were just trying to fill spots. One of the other people, Lisa Richards, was in charge of partnerships or something like that. And she and I were just like deer in headlights, you know, wondering like, what are we supposed to do?
Michele Cooper:So, I mean, was great because it meant that we could change everything, you know, to whatever it is that we wanted. So there was there was a lot of excitement around that. So when I became president, it was fun to play around.
Kelly Holohan:It was there was like financial issues too. Like that's what I remember about like when you and I were working together, when you were president, like there was a lot of like figuring out how we're gonna make this sound, you know, like moving forward.
Michele Cooper:Well, was the whole thing about memberships. Like, we would get portions of the membership that go back to the chapter, and that was not happening. So there were yes. For years. Any of that.
Michele Cooper:And we found out and had an amazing treasurer, Amy Davis.
Kelly Holohan:Amy Davis. She was amazing.
Michele Cooper:She found out how to transfer those funds into our you know, our chapter account. So that that was then we had money. We never had money before. Yeah. So yeah.
Michele Cooper:There were a lot of And that's like when the
Kelly Holohan:and that's when, like, really robust programming started to happen, you know, because we actually had some funds to do that with. And, like, I was I was like I like I I always remember that time, Michelle. It was like, you, like, came in and the the task was to try to figure out that financial stuff and kinda get everything underway. And then I joke that I was the person that came in and had to be the bad guy and tell people that, like, things like, I don't know, you have to be a member of the organization if you're going to sit in a leadership position and that was not a popular idea.
Michele Cooper:Yeah, that's how sad it was in terms of just people that were involved. Yeah, it it was definitely something when I was transferring over power to Kelly. I remember having to explain this, you know, this is something that is an issue.
Erik Cargill:What year was this? About what year was this when this transfer came and you started finding all of this?
Kelly Holohan:2007 to 02/2007. Yeah. '7 to '8. Yeah. Yeah.
Michele Cooper:Yeah. Because I was president from 02/2005, I think, to 02/2007.
Kelly Holohan:Mhmm. Right. And I was 2007 to 02/2009. That's right. Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. And so with all the newfound money, what type of programming did you do?
Kelly Holohan:I woke back up my CME because, you know, as an educator, we have to document every fart we ever make. You know? So so I went back and looked, and I could see, like I'm like, wow. We get a lot. Like like, we initiated those student tours.
Kelly Holohan:We did we did it was a lot of, obviously, student programming because we were such a big chapter and we had, like and we I think we still have. There's, like, six or seven design programs associated with us in the area. And then we did that New to You series, we had Saul Sender come, who designed the Obama logo, we did oh, the green stock. So we did, sustainability programming. Remember we had Paul Pollock come, and there was a bunch of people come that came for that.
Kelly Holohan:So, yeah, we did some really exciting things. And, of course, then just like we did the community choice thing where we, sent out the lists of people and had, our community vote on who they would like to see. And so we got you know, we had Muka. We had Roberto DeVic, and I think Michael Beirut came. So we have the the big stars also, but we also did a lot of kinda grassroots stuff.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:So much fun. What a great way to spend money.
Michele Cooper:Yeah. Yeah. Mean, even when we did have money, I think like we did what we could with what we had. And we grew we grew the membership, I think, was really what we did when we didn't have any money. So that's why I think some of the rules started to be important once once we transferred power.
Michele Cooper:It was like, oh, now we have actual members. We really probably should have some rules or protocols. So we ended up doing I think we ended I actually recruited Alan Es piritu during that time as well and so he had a lot of energy as we all know.
Kelly Holohan:Did PDA happen around that time?
Michele Cooper:PDA actually didn't happen until later. That wasn't until, let me think, when was that? 02/2007? So it was during
Kelly Holohan:our time.
Michele Cooper:2007 was the first time. PDA is the Philadelphia Design Awards. Was like nothing that we actually ever had. Yeah. We love that it sounded like something, you know?
Michele Cooper:It was love, you know? It was the the city of brotherly love. Yeah. Yeah. But that was with Alan.
Michele Cooper:That was with Alan Esperitu. He and I spearheaded that. But it was it was right after I came off of being president and a lot of people were like, are you crazy? Why would you want to do something after you did all this work being president? And I was like, well, don't know, it's a good transition.
Michele Cooper:Like less, you know, less responsibility but just like more hyper focused. Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:Mhmm. Well, why is that? I mean, I I hear this over and over from our guests. It's like, yay, I'm not a president. I get to relax.
Rachel Elnar:So I took on this other committee.
Kelly Holohan:It's the people. I think it's the people, like, wanting to kind of stay involved. You know? You know? And those and over the years, you know, all the time that Michelle and I put in, like, you've developed these really amazing relationships.
Kelly Holohan:So you know what? You wanna keep working with these people. And and since that time, like, Michelle and I we, the women, Michelle and I launched that together. And, you know, so that was a good and we did all sorts of programming around that. We did we did that thing at Kismet, Michelle, the The panel discussion.
Kelly Holohan:The panel discussion, and then we did a poster design. This was in the last Trump administration. We did a poster, you know, a protest poster workshop, where folks came in, and then, of course, there was the posters themselves, and we solicited women, nonbinary, queer folks to participate that that we that were within our networks, and that all focused on human rights in The United States. That was the focus of that, and so once we had collected, there was about 40 posters all together, and then we designed a website and launched it. We were selling them to try to kind of keep it running and of course we both had full time jobs so you know it did okay for the first two and a half years and then we just couldn't keep up with it.
Rachel Elnar:It's really hard to keep those systems and those programs in place.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. Even as necessary as they are.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. But we're still together Sisters in Solidarity. Like, we're still, you know, doing that kind of stuff.
Kelly Holohan:Michelle organized a fundraiser for human rights initially a few years ago, and then she recently relaunched that. And so that was a was that that was the second street press silk screen workshop.
Michele Cooper:Right. And that was also with Alan Esperry too at GDLoft. So yeah, I feel like I agree. I think that there have been so many relationships that have been made and then fostered through the years for so many of us. And I feel like it's one of those situations where when you leave the organization, you could still call anybody up and Absolutely.
Michele Cooper:They would still remember you. I mean, especially in Philadelphia, but also with the leadership retreats. You know, I feel like it's great to have social media because that's the way that we can stay in touch and know that everyone's still doing things and they're around and seeing other AIGA friends in different cities. And I just love that. I love seeing that people are still getting together even though, you know, you're you're coming from different parts of the country.
Michele Cooper:Whenever somebody pops into a different city, they'll meet up with one of their AIGA leadership friends. But I remember Facebook actually was was a brand new thing when Omaha happened. And I remember that the AIGA leadership retreat was the reason why I joined Facebook.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. Because you wanted to see what debauchery of photos you were tagged into. Because Michelle, you were dancing on some crazy tables there in the bar.
Michele Cooper:I actually just in trying to like remember some of the places that I went, because I couldn't remember all the cities, I was looking online for like, I remembered Omaha. So I did a search, AIGA Philadelphia Omaha. And Barrick, do you remember Barrick? I forget Barrick's last Rose. Rose.
Michele Cooper:So his his like, I forget what it was. It was like Tumblr feed or something showed up and there were a million pictures from From that room tree? From Omaha and I think like another one, I don't remember. But it was crazy because you see all of these faces and it's like frozen in time. Like, it's like kind of like the last time that I saw these people because like Kelly was saying, you know, we decided to let other people go.
Michele Cooper:And so by the time I went to the next retreat, some of those spaces might have been gone. But like seeing these pictures, it was just really
Kelly Holohan:Right.
Michele Cooper:It was really amazing that, you know Well, love to you exactly that way. Yeah.
Kelly Holohan:I can't I can't remember crap. So like, it's like, I had to look back. So, Rachel, those pictures I sent you, I'm like, I know there are pictures. And so the minute I saw the photos, like, remember the, the going away party for me? Like, when I was done being president, Helene sponsored that party at her house, and we were playing garage band.
Michele Cooper:Do you remember that? Yes. I do remember that. That was so funny. That was there were some people from Omaha that were at that party too.
Michele Cooper:So, like, Alyssa and Alex Radnick. Yeah.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. Well, they were all on they were all on the board when I was president. Right? Because I think Alex ran that programming for the Green Stock. It was him and Mark.
Kelly Holohan:Remember? They did that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Holohan:There were just so many great people, and then and then I brought a lot of students on to I turned them on to AIGA in general, and so I think, Mary Beth Cradle Weitzel, who was a president at some point, after us, I brought her on the board. I didn't Bernardo, I just saw Bernardo, the other day, and, I was like, did I bring you on the board? I was trying to remember. You know? And he said, no.
Kelly Holohan:He said, but you were the you were the reason I got to go to one of the retreats. I can't remember what it was.
Michele Cooper:Probably Omaha, actually. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Because So Bernardo was there.
Michele Cooper:Bernardo was there.
Kelly Holohan:Right. Yeah. So, I mean, we Bernardo and I did the thing I remember with Bernardo with AIGA was we did that what's the big awards thing in New York? The the the
Rachel Elnar:The gala?
Kelly Holohan:The gala. We went we got a table Medalist? Gala. What the medalist. Yeah.
Kelly Holohan:And so Bernardo, and I went to that together.
Rachel Elnar:So I'm listening to you both saying, who did I bring them to the board? I brought them onto the board. Sort of the same way we were all sort of picked and pulled into the board. I was laughing at your your stories because Erik tells me that he was also just attending an event and got picked up and put on the board.
Erik Cargill:First event. First event.
Kelly Holohan:First event.
Erik Cargill:Hey, do you wanna do you wanna raise money for us? Cold call people
Kelly Holohan:for money?
Erik Cargill:That was fun. Was horrifying. Just
Rachel Elnar:like yeah.
Michele Cooper:Like as designers, is that what we do? That's yeah. I feel like that's a little out of our skill set. Yeah.
Erik Cargill:That was stretch goal for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, your story is very familiar. It's, you know, the community is still part of our lives.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. I went to, there was an event, in Philly at the Barns last year, and there were all sorts of people and, you know, I felt like it was the first, like, in person event that I really engaged in after COVID too. You know? And so a lot of people came out, and it was nice. Like, I think Frank Baseman was there.
Kelly Holohan:Alex Radnick showed up to that. I saw him in passing. Emily Cohen was there. So it was it was nice to reconnect with those folks, but also, like, to meet all the young bloods, you know, like, on the board. And the the current president, the incoming president, is Mia Culbertson, and she is my former graduate student and my current colleague.
Kelly Holohan:She teaches with us at Tyler.
Erik Cargill:Oh, wow. That's great.
Rachel Elnar:Well, I'll say this last thing about the Philly chapter or ask the last question about Philly chapter. Then, Erik, I want us to jump into the leadership retreats and open up up a bit. But I'll have to say that at the leadership retreats, Philly was the it chapter. I mean, if you wanted to have a fun time Really? You find the Philly room.
Rachel Elnar:Oh, yeah. For sure. Especially in Omaha. Right, Michelle?
Michele Cooper:Yeah. Oh, I don't know if we were in Omaha. I feel like that might have been where was Jacksonville? Maybe it was, like, the room. I remember yes.
Michele Cooper:There always being I remember there always being, like, games. They were, like, always playing, like, beer pong or something in their room. But just the numbers that we were writing on our hands to, like, make sure we're
Kelly Holohan:Right.
Michele Cooper:Okay. Like Making pure pure we were going through all the, oh yeah and then the pyramids too. That garden could be started.
Kelly Holohan:It's like a thing. Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:So I'm definitely in awe of your community in Philly because when you show up to the national stage people know who you are. I mean, Philly has been mentioned in every single episode we've done. We've already done 16. Wow. Philly is mentioned every
Kelly Holohan:single First chapter. First chapter. Yeah. I hear it's con I hear it's contentious that that there's some argument about it, but I dig in. I we were the first chapter.
Kelly Holohan:And was it was Elena Wheeler the president? Yeah. Yeah. Alina, I'm you know, RIP, Alina. She died last year.
Michele Cooper:Yeah. She was definitely and she was the first fellow in Philadelphia.
Kelly Holohan:Yep. It was Alina and Hans and all those guys.
Michele Cooper:Intimidating. It was really intimidating, actually, like, to have all these, like, big names. I came out of, like I came I lived in Arizona for a couple years and then moved back to Philadelphia area and ended up getting involved with the AIGA, but it was just so intimidating. There was so much history, with the chapter. So, I think Rosemary Murphy was the president then
Kelly Holohan:and Yeah. I didn't know enough to be intimidated. I was just like, oh, okay. You know?
Michele Cooper:Well, yeah, he came from New York and he was just
Kelly Holohan:like, Yeah. I was just like,
Erik Cargill:Yo, let's talk about leadership retreats. You guys tell us some of your favorite memories, some of the standout memories from the programming and also the after parties. If you don't remember the dates, totally fine or where it was. I know they all bleed together, but just some
Kelly Holohan:extra And you have to separate them from the AIGA conferences too, because I had to like look and I said, okay. Sometimes it was like, wait, was that a leadership retreat or was that a conference? Because a lot of the same folks yeah, you would know would go to both.
Rachel Elnar:But were there pyramids in both? No.
Michele Cooper:No. That was It's a very different experience.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. Yeah.
Michele Cooper:Yeah. It's sort of like when you go to college and college is like fun fun and you're doing so much socializing and there's a balance there. And then you go to get your like masters or your doctorate and then you're just like very you're very serious. So that was like, those were the conferences And the leadership retreats were like, fun college times. Yeah.
Kelly Holohan:There was some epic like, one of my favorite memories that was in Miami. Were you in Miami with me?
Michele Cooper:No? I wasn't. No. I wasn't. That was when we switched.
Rachel Elnar:Alright. But I would love to know more, so please dish.
Kelly Holohan:Okay. So I Bill Grant was president, and we were hanging out in the hot tub, and we were completely we were so drunk. Like, it's one of the, like, most drunk times I've ever been in my life. And so it was Bill Bill Grant was in there, and then, the the folks I I love those people from Richmond. It was, Dave McIntosh.
Michele Cooper:Dave McIntosh.
Kelly Holohan:And, Kim Spencer. Like see it's all about the people like it was all you know it was always these experiences that you would have with people and and when Michelle and I were at the retreats together we were always roommates which was my favorite because I'm not gonna go into the story at all here. But there was one the one retreat I went without Michelle, I had a different roommate who shall not be named, and, there was an uninvited guest in our room. And it was like Oh. I remember laying there thinking, I'm too old for this shit.
Kelly Holohan:You know? And I said to you, Michelle, I'm never staying with anybody but you after that, and I didn't. Yeah. It's not good.
Michele Cooper:Wow. Yeah. But I feel like because did we we roomed in Portland together?
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. We did in Portland, and I think we do in the San Francisco for a little bit, but then later in San Francisco because I had just started dating my wife so this is a nice little yeah.
Michele Cooper:I remember that. I remember you having phone calls. Yeah In San Francisco.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. I stayed a day longer and, Dave Rizzio let me stay in his room because he was gonna be there an extra day. So I I crashed in his room because I wanted to go to the pride parade. The pride parade was Sunday. And so and so I went to I said, I'm in San Francisco.
Kelly Holohan:I have to go to pride here. And so, my wife who I just started dating, I I was on the phone with her for all of pride in San Francisco, and I was like sharing.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. Sounds like fun.
Michele Cooper:I actually remember in Omaha, I feel like this was a tradition, and I feel like we did that the year before, and I can't remember where that was. Maybe it was that San Francisco? But we had to have each chapter have like a dance performance or something that they had to do. Yeah. Yeah.
Michele Cooper:And we even we we pulled Laurie was involved in that. Laurie Churchman. And Alan was the
Kelly Holohan:front singer. He Alan was in front. Right. Like, I mean, it felt like a high it felt like a junior high play, you know, like it had that vibe to it.
Michele Cooper:Yes. But it was a lot of pressure because, you know, everybody wanted to do something that was, you know, related to where they were from. And so we did that. And then I think in Omaha, we did something that's like the love statue or something where they recreated the love statue with our t shirts or something like that. But yeah, I always felt like that was kind of like that's what set up just the lightness and the fun for the whole event.
Michele Cooper:Because it was like the first night. That's what you had to do. And so you're already like being completely ridiculous like in front of strangers. So why not like after that go and like just have drinks with them and you know, so that was the way it started out. But I don't know if they continued to do that.
Michele Cooper:I don't remember if I saw that after. I don't know if we did it in Portland. I don't think we did. Is that the one though that had the the video game place where we like all would you could like go and get drinks and there's all these video games that you could play? I don't think that was in Portland.
Kelly Holohan:No. I don't play. I don't know. I remember the bookstore, Powell's. We went to Powell's.
Kelly Holohan:Powell's. Yeah. Okay. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. You just spend hours there for Easy.
Kelly Holohan:I love it. I love a good book store.
Michele Cooper:I actually I remember in Omaha that I didn't bring anything for the big night where like, think there was always like a night
Kelly Holohan:where we
Michele Cooper:all get dressed up and and I didn't have anything. So I had to go to like some random boutique in Omaha and found a dress that I still own and I just wore to a gala like last weekend.
Rachel Elnar:Wow. Wow.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. That's impressive that that dress still fits you, Michelle.
Michele Cooper:Well, it was it's it was like an a line dress. I mean, like, you
Kelly Holohan:know, I
Michele Cooper:don't I feel like, you know, there weren't there weren't issues fitting into it, thankfully. But, yeah. Yeah. It was it was it was a fun dress.
Rachel Elnar:And Omaha was 02/2008, so that was a long time ago.
Kelly Holohan:That's what I'm saying. Yeah. We're all a lot older. Yeah.
Michele Cooper:Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely held up through the years again. Oh
Kelly Holohan:my gosh.
Erik Cargill:And Obahas Obahas were pyramids started. Right? If if I'm not mistaken.
Michele Cooper:Yeah.
Erik Cargill:Think did so. Did you take part of that?
Michele Cooper:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there was there's a picture of that in, Derek's his his like shutter flutter, whatever flicker or whatever it was. His like, his his his stuff.
Michele Cooper:So so yeah. Yeah. I I think that I remember Caroline or Caroline? Caroline? Colonna?
Michele Cooper:She was always
Rachel Elnar:in Colonna. She was always on the top. She was tiny.
Michele Cooper:She was always on the top.
Rachel Elnar:She's adamant. Yeah.
Michele Cooper:Yeah. I'm actually Facebook friends with her. So every now and then, I'll see her pop up. So like I said, Facebook's really nice for those things.
Kelly Holohan:Are are you Facebook friends, Michelle, with anybody that I'm not giving anything away, but with anybody that you you're you don't you you know you met them at AID, but you don't really remember? Like Oh. Because I just had a club
Rachel Elnar:club. A lot of it.
Kelly Holohan:I'm like, no. I think that was AIGA, but I have no It's gone.
Michele Cooper:No. I don't think that I do. Because I feel like there there are probably people in my list that just don't show up in the feed. Yeah. But no.
Michele Cooper:Most of the people that I see pop up, remember. Like David Macintosh, he's still on there.
Erik Cargill:I've introduced myself to people like, you know, for jobs, looking for a job, I've introduced myself to hiring managers and I was friends with them in AIGA through Facebook, and I'm introducing myself and I don't
Kelly Holohan:remember. And you were interviewing for a job with them? No,
Erik Cargill:I didn't get to the interview stage, was just but like, you were an AIGA. So was I.
Kelly Holohan:So was I. And then
Erik Cargill:they, yeah, Erik, I know.
Michele Cooper:Okay, that hasn't happened to me.
Rachel Elnar:It's tough. I mean we have large networks. If you go to one leadership retreat, you're automatically best friends with 250, 350 people, right? You go to another one and there might be some overlap, but honestly, the AIGA family keeps growing and growing. So, I don't even know, especially you Kelly, you're a teacher.
Rachel Elnar:When you're a teacher, have got like a whole other side of your brain just trying to retain Thousands. Students. Thousands.
Kelly Holohan:Over the I've been at Tyler twenty five years, and and if I see them okay. So if I see them after they've graduated and out of context, it's that's even harder. It's like, oh, I know you. I think you might have been a student. Like, it takes a minute.
Kelly Holohan:And some so sometimes I'll just let them talk, and then they will reveal to me, you know, who they are. Then usually that's enough to to trigger my memory.
Rachel Elnar:It's hard. It's like seeing an actor, you're not in the same outfit as I saw you before. So yeah, exactly.
Kelly Holohan:You look different. You have a different hair color, your hair
Rachel Elnar:Right.
Kelly Holohan:Exactly. Or you put on weight or you you took off weight or you you know, all the things.
Erik Cargill:Not all of us get to mix with celebrities in LA.
Rachel Elnar:Well, I'm not talking about in reality. I'm just saying, like, watching one show and then another show, like,
Kelly Holohan:oh, familiar? You're hanging out with my my bestie celebrity, Christine Scheller. So I know. She's a she's a rock star. Yeah.
Erik Cargill:She's great.
Rachel Elnar:She's a rock star. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Alright. Let's talk a little bit about something that you learned from other people in either the leadership retreats or in your experience on the board.
Kelly Holohan:So for me, as coming to AIGA as an educator, like, I I knew I knew at at that time of course, it's changed over the years, but I knew what motivated my students to help them get to the outcomes that they wanted. But motivating volunteers is its own thing. And so I think some of the things, and Michelle did this too, were were these kinds of retreats that we would do. And one of the things that I would try to do with my board at the time was to get to the heart of why they were there. You know?
Kelly Holohan:And, you know, some people were there for like me, for the camaraderie and the you know? And and the but other people were there for different reasons. So, you know and then I tried to make mental notes of what it was that was motivating those folks so that I, could play to that, you know, to make sure that they were getting out of it what they were putting into it. And and I I think that that's the first time I ever really thought that way. I think I think I was doing it kind of instinctually with teaching, but it was the first time with AID that I ever really, like, gave that a concrete thought.
Kelly Holohan:And I think it made my teaching better afterwards. And and then, of course, I moved. So in 02/2010, I became graduate director. So I moved into a leadership position. So in 02/2010, I was graduate director, and then I became the BFA program head in 2016.
Kelly Holohan:So I, you know, I feel like some of that work with AIGA helped prepare me for those leadership roles.
Michele Cooper:Yeah. I think I think the same thing about volunteering. I actually do volunteering for a lot of different initiatives now, that are not graphic design related. And I think, you know, AIGA leadership retreats or even just being involved in AIGA Philadelphia was the first time that I was organizing volunteers and working with volunteers for sure. Like, so quickly, when you become the president, and you're working with different departments within the retreat or not the retreat, within the group, you know that people have agendas, not anything negative, but not agendas, the reason that they want to be involved is particular to who they are.
Michele Cooper:And so like trying to just facilitate that and make that happen for them, that was always sort of the goal. And I learned that through just volunteering with AIGA. But then with being involved with the leadership retreats, it was a whole other level. And my age then like kind of being like a younger designer, seeing how people network, like that whole concept was sort of like, this was the first time that I saw that at a bigger level, like not just in the city, but just the opportunities that you have to meet people from all over the country was just so, so fascinating. But also pooling, like, I remember all the tables that were at all the retreats with everybody's materials and just taking notes on what people were doing.
Michele Cooper:Oh, I forgot about all that. Bringing it back. Yeah. I felt like a real responsibility. Like, that was the thing that we needed to, like, capture all of these cool ideas and really making these connections so that when we go back to Philadelphia, we could contact all of these people and see if there were other things that we could do.
Michele Cooper:And I don't know if we ever did that, but
Rachel Elnar:I
Michele Cooper:think eventually, I think like maybe Kelly, you might have partnered with like one or two, but it wasn't happening in the beginning, like when I first started going to leadership retreats. It really started like around the time of Omaha, you know? Like, I remember going to Austin and it was just not the same. It was very, like, just seemed standard, like a standard kind of gathering of people. And, you know, we had our workshops and things like breakout sessions and things like that.
Michele Cooper:But just the social aspect of it was much bigger in Omaha for sure. So yeah.
Rachel Elnar:What was what's the year
Kelly Holohan:of that?
Michele Cooper:Austin? I thought it was 02/2006. I was just trying to remember because I don't think that there weren't many people like Kelly wasn't you weren't in Philadelphia yet, don't think. Right, Kelly?
Kelly Holohan:No. No. I was I've been here since 02/2001. I was So I was just coming onto the board as your VP because I in 02/2005, like I said, I was running that the design for the AIGA Philadelphia, the revolution Philadelphia, that conference.
Michele Cooper:Okay. Because there was Austin, know was, like, Frank Baseman was still like the chair of education and That was really good.
Erik Cargill:Was that 02/2003?
Michele Cooper:Gosh.
Rachel Elnar:Was it?
Erik Cargill:02/2003?
Michele Cooper:Is that on our list, Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:It is? It's 2000
Michele Cooper:and That's amazing. Wow. Oh my gosh. That was like, I remember, there were some social things that were happening though. Like I remember like a lot of people would do that sunrise group, you know, where everybody and would get like hang out until like the sun came up.
Michele Cooper:That started in Austin and it was What? Mark English, remember the designer Mark English?
Kelly Holohan:Oh, English. He would bring
Michele Cooper:his guitar and he would find a space at the top of the hotel and just play and jam and get other people to bring their drinks up and like hang out until the sun came up.
Erik Cargill:I had to write that down because because I you know, people have talked about that, but nobody's actually said when it started.
Michele Cooper:Yeah. Might have been actually, feel like it started before that, and I just I wasn't there.
Kelly Holohan:Oh.
Michele Cooper:But I just remember it. It was, like, already established, and some people knew, and they brought their guitars with them.
Kelly Holohan:Mhmm. What? Wow. Yeah.
Michele Cooper:So that social aspect, guess, has always been there. But I just think it it just became something a little different. And I don't know if it was because I got more involved in the organization at that point. And for Austin, felt a little fish out of water, so.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah, I think when you move into leadership, I think you pay closer attention, Shell. And Yeah. I think, like, when you were talking about like, that was one of my favorite things about those retreats. Those retreats were the swag tables of all the programming and all the I and I had always come back with amazing t shirts.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. I love the exchange of information between chapters. That was definitely the social network before social media. Right? Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:Correct. When do you just land in one place know people from across the country? Before social media Yeah. Hardly ever.
Michele Cooper:Yeah. Right. And that's why I think when I think, Rachel, you might have invited me to Facebook. And I feel like it just made sense. It just made sense.
Michele Cooper:Like, oh, of course. How how am I gonna stay in touch with everybody else? You know? And that you could do that visually. Like, you could see pictures.
Michele Cooper:You could mess I don't think you could message at that point. But it just was it was just it made sense to do Facebook.
Rachel Elnar:The pictures were crazy though. I did get some notes like, please don't tag me on those because my family is on Facebook or something like that. Yeah. I got a bunch of notes like, some of those photos, not so great.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. It makes me Yeah. Glad that I grew up and I went to high school when I did because there's virtually no evidence. Right. That's best.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. That's true. No biggie. You kid you. These kids today, they can't get away with anything.
Rachel Elnar:Nope. I mean, I can even tell where I can tell where my nephews are right now. Just where they how fast they're driving. It's crazy.
Kelly Holohan:Right? Exactly.
Michele Cooper:Well or it was just much simpler times. Always like to think back to the AIJ leadership retreats. Like, I was just so fun and simple. And it's, you know, not not as fun and simple anymore. You just can't get away from it.
Michele Cooper:It's, like, part of our life and our culture, and you can't get away from always being exposed to something. So it was, like, a great time to just focus. You focus.
Rachel Elnar:There were no thongs. Just Sharpie markers. Not
Kelly Holohan:thongs. Just Sharpie markers.
Rachel Elnar:That
Michele Cooper:would have never happened if we had social media then. Right.
Kelly Holohan:No. That's true. Yeah. In a weird way, we were more present. Right?
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm. Sharpies.
Erik Cargill:Sharpie media.
Kelly Holohan:Sharpie media. I
Michele Cooper:think I remember the next retreat that happened. There are people doing, like, more things with Sharpies, like doing, like, fake tattoos. Was it Portland?
Kelly Holohan:Do you remember the buttons? Do you remember, like, going I don't remember. Was that San Francisco?
Rachel Elnar:Was talking about everybody having filled with buttons.
Michele Cooper:Everyone clipped them from
Kelly Holohan:each other at that mixer thing they would do towards the beginning. And so you would talk to people, and you would get you would collect buttons from all the different chapters.
Michele Cooper:Oh my gosh I've been
Kelly Holohan:putting them on your clip them to your lanyard yeah. I'll write the lanyard.
Rachel Elnar:Alright well I hope you have some photos of these because it would be great to illustrate some of these points.
Michele Cooper:I don't know.
Erik Cargill:Yeah. I would love to see these buttons.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I do. I think I sent everything I had. I really shook.
Kelly Holohan:I like
Michele Cooper:I totally forgot about them, so I don't think I have a picture.
Kelly Holohan:Well, I remembered because I enjoyed that. And it it it it it kinda forced you to out of your out of your shell to talk to folks that you didn't know. And so, you know, that was fun.
Rachel Elnar:And it was so much fun talking to you both today. I don't know. I I have to just say that Philly is one of the most chapters that I know. Everybody who is filled with
Kelly Holohan:Angel.
Rachel Elnar:Love, care, and I mean, you know this, Kelly. Right?
Kelly Holohan:Just Well, you know, Debbie Millman told me this Okay. Once. So when she was working for National and she was doing that stint, I don't know what her position was, but she was basically traveling to all the chapters. And Yeah. So I spent a significant amount of time with her because I think I was presently at the time and, she told me that.
Kelly Holohan:She said, yeah, Billy is very special. Yeah.
Rachel Elnar:Yeah. I know how all you guys do it, but there's something.
Michele Cooper:We went
Kelly Holohan:mean, the membership numbers were so good. Michelle, our numbers were so good. I think when I left, we were at almost 800 people. Oh, wow. Yeah.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah.
Michele Cooper:Oh, yeah.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. And I think when Michelle came in, we were like at, like, in the five hundreds. That's That's
Michele Cooper:not good.
Kelly Holohan:Together, over four years, we went from in the five hundreds to close to eight Yeah. Wow. And that was all that great programming and
Michele Cooper:I forgot that we watched all those numbers. That's true.
Kelly Holohan:Yeah. Yeah. Because we were concerned because of the money. Yeah. We were trying to, you know, like, get get more money to do bigger things.
Kelly Holohan:You know?
Michele Cooper:But doing that, I feel like we ended up just being, like, really good at recruiting. And maybe that's where we found all these amazing people. Like, you know what mean? I think that we just worked really hard to find, like, fun people to hang out with. And then
Kelly Holohan:That's right.
Michele Cooper:We just, we kinda left this like legacy of like, yeah, it's all about like hanging out and No you nothing fun.
Kelly Holohan:No jerks can be on Yeah. The board,
Michele Cooper:You're fun.
Rachel Elnar:Why don't you be the chair? Why don't you be the VP? Like, yeah. That's how
Kelly Holohan:you Exactly.
Michele Cooper:That's how it happened. Yeah. There's just a few
Kelly Holohan:late then.
Erik Cargill:Oh, you're new here.
Kelly Holohan:What? Why? Yeah. You wanna be on board? You wanna be in charge?
Michele Cooper:Not even, I feel like there were so many things like that. Those situations happened a lot, where we just met someone who seemed really interested and looked like they were gonna contribute, so we would get them interested in something that was going on. Yeah, let's take you and put you in this position. Or we have this going on, would you like to get more involved?
Kelly Holohan:Yeah.
Michele Cooper:Yeah.
Kelly Holohan:It was
Michele Cooper:it was pretty cool.
Rachel Elnar:Well, thank you, ladies.
Kelly Holohan:Thank you both. Yeah. This was great. It was so nice to run with us. And then thanks for, like, inviting having me invite someone, my partner in crime there with me.
Michele Cooper:It was. It was so fun to, like, try and remember all of these things. Yeah. And, yeah, we were we were there together. So
Erik Cargill:it's so wonderful. Love it.
Michele Cooper:Thanks for doing this. Yeah.
Erik Cargill:Thank you.
Kelly Holohan:See you.
Rachel Elnar:Alright, ladies. Thank you again. Really,
Kelly Holohan:really Thank so much. Everybody.
Michele Cooper:See you. Bye. Bye bye.
Rachel Elnar:Cheers and tiers will be back next time with more Design Leadership Tales Retold.
Erik Cargill:Please subscribe, rate, review, and share this podcast with your creative community, design leaders, and friends.
Rachel Elnar:Cheers and Tiers Design Leadership Tales Were Told is a production of chapter two and hosted by us, Rachel Elmer and Erik Cargill. This episode was produced and edited by Rachel Elnar. Podcast graphics by Erik Cargill. Animation by Verso Design and Megato Design.
Erik Cargill:The theme music track is Loose Ends by Silver Ship's Plastic Oceans. Follow Cheers and Tiers on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube podcasts, or wherever you get your audio and video podcasts. Subscribe to our email list at cheersandtiers.com so you don't miss an episode.